macdibble ([info]macdibble) wrote,
@ 2006-12-27 12:53:00
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Getting Started
The question raised from my last post was: "Do you edit as you write, plow through to the end and then edit, use a crit group to discover the nits and gnats in the prose, send it off to a professional editor, or ask your house guests to take a crack at editing for the practice in the English language, and what do you suspect the pros and cons of these approaches might be?

AND the simple answer is a famous quote: Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm (let's take "great" in this case as meaning great story... not world-changing or something mightier).

Enthusiasm is your most important asset so you have to guard and protect that enthusiasm. Editing, picking apart the prose or showing it to house guests as you write could all destroy enthusiasm so I say write it all out before you do anything else.

Prior to writing it out is plot outlining, and bouncing the story off a few trusted individuals who write in the same genre. There is potential there to either increase enthusiasm or deflect you from wasting a lot of time writing something that has been done. If you ask people who read and write in the same genre, they are likely to not only have read widely in that genre but also to have thought about and extrapolated many of the common themes of that genre.

Either they will say something like: "That's excellent. I think lots of readers will love to hear about secret genetic research, it's a hot topic right now with the whole stem cell research thing, and you know, there is a chance to expand into a conspiracy theory if you link it to secret rich people organ transplant, and you can even touch on those urban myths about waking up in baths of ice if you want..." and wahoo suddenly your plot outline takes on another dimension (let's face it, novel plots need many dimensions and most of us only have a couple when we start out on a novel). Or they could say, "Isn't that really similar to that book "Organ Grinders" and I don't remember that doing so well." Then you get to quiz them on the plot outline of the similar book and ask them where they think it fell down, and even read it as background research so you don't repeat someone else's mediocrity (btw Organ Grinders is an excellent book, not at all mediocre - I don't know why it didn't do so well - altho I wish I knew).

I've seen people ask for plot outline feedback at various online groups. Plot outlines can't be copyrighted so if you think that there is a high chance a writer will discover your plot and be so enthused by it that they steal it and write it up better than you ever could, be a little guarded with your questions. It's true that it's impossible that two writers would ever write the same plot up the same way but it is also true that there's no room in the marketplace for two similar books at the same time.

I often bounce ideas off sf or children's writer friends face to face. Normally, I do it after I write the opening scene which is bizarre, but it makes the main character and the situation real to me, and after I have a few drinks. Helps with extrapolation.

Using this method, I always have to rewrite the opening scene when I've sorted out the plot, and sometimes I have to rewrite it from scratch. I have a lot of opening scenes that just don't turn into stories because I've realised at that stage that my idea was mediocre and it needs more: that other new element or a complete overhaul.

I've been thinking a lot lately, especially since a small company offered me a publishing deal on a novel that I just can't get completely satisfied with. What I really want more than a publishing deal on that novel is to write something awesome. Something that kids will pick up and go all word-of-mouth about like Lemony Snicket, or Artemis Fowl, or Eragon. That wow factor. That complex combination of fun, imagery, imagination, empathy, adventure that grabs most kids. Mind you, a nice fat biblio can't hurt especially if I ever write that word-of-mouth novel and need to convince a publisher to publish it.

Once the story is finished, I would suggest writing three short stories to take your mind off it, or get out and paint the house. Then haul it out again and self-edit before sending off to a crit group. Get out a whiteboard (or the side of the fridge) and write out a plot map at the self-edit stage too and see if it is all entirely logical (ie. does any character do something just to further the plot not because that is the logical thing for someone in his position to do?) Pick out the ideas and obvious flaws that resonate with you from the crit group (be selective) change it, and then, if you still think it has potential, send to a professional editor or, if you're confident that the story is not only the best it can be but also better than every other story in any slush pile anywhere and that the grammar is perfect, figure out which publishers do this size/genre/style and make a list from your favourite publisher down to your okay publisher and start mailing. Mail all at once if you want to, or if you think you should respect a publisher's wishes to have exclusive submissions (which you should do ONLY if their slushpile actually has a legitimate turnaround time - check at Duotrope because imho trust has to work BOTH ways) then give them a 2-3 week headstart.

Skip the agents if this is your first novel. Anyone who thinks earning 10% of a first novelist's earnings is a good idea is seriously dodgy. If a publishing company breaks even on a first novel, then it is a success. Give up any hope of making money from writing and you'll be better off.

Some writers hate plot outlines. These tend to be novelists who have the wordspace to ebb and flow and follow their natural instincts. They also know they won't be finished in under a year and that they will have to cut 20,000 words at least in the editing stage.

Short story writers and children's writers generally know the basics of the plot before they start writing. Often there is a twist at the end of short stories that has to be built up to. Not knowing that twist until you get there means going back and taking out accident red herrings, and inserting real ones with the actual clues and destroying the flow of the story. Short story writers like plot outlines even if they deviate from them vastly. And they should never feel hemmed in or stifled by a plot outline. Follow your natural instincts as you write and if it all turns to custard, you've lost nothing because you can always go back to the point at which you deviated from the plot outline and try a different direction.

SUMMARY - Get enthused - get a plot outline - get more enthused about it - write, write, write, and don't let anything interfere with your writing until after it's done, that's how you get started.



Hotel MacDibble Inmates: 4!
Projects of the Week: Tiling laundry
Critiqued this week: 0!
Reading this week: An Abundance of Katherines by John Green
Writing this week: Girly Chomp (a children's science fiction story about hitchhiking the galaxy)

The Blog of Moogill | My Webpage | Mentor of Moogill



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I remembered to log in.
[info]herefordeye
2006-12-28 12:25 am UTC (link)
"Then haul it out again and self-edit before sending off to a crit group."
Sending it off to the crit group for what? Expectations should be that you will learn something about the story, yes? What works and what doesn't work, that sort of thing. But, then, you are going to tell us two sentences later "Pick out the ideas and obvious flaws that resonate with you from the crit group (be selective) change it,..."
Okay, you can agree or disagree with the crit group feedback. If you are going to go with only that which resonates, then what was it again that you wanted from the crit group? It seems to me that you like or don't like the story you've written and the crit group can either support or not support your already chosen position. If the don't support, then their crits probably won't resonate with you and you can safely ignore them. Why are we sending it to a crit group?
"...then, if you still think it has potential, send to a professional editor..."
Why? What is it that you expect to obtain from the professional editor? I'm not talking grammar and spelling, here; should I be? I get the impression that a professional editor does more than dot the i's and cross the t's. They talk about what they think works and doesn't work, the same sort of thing that that crit groups advertise as their raison d' etre and what I think the the publisher's agent(editor) is supposed to do. Is this accurate or not?

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Re: I remembered to log in.
[info]macdibble
2006-12-28 01:50 am UTC (link)
You are working under a few assumptions that are not necessarily correct.

One is that the publisher's editor actually has any time. Publishing, especially in Australia, is riding on its arsebones. Editors are overworked and underpaid so basically your ms has to be just about ready to hit the printing press when it hits the publisher.

Editors hate being harrassed by authors and authors hate upsetting editors and both these conditions are astoundingly easy for an unsuspecting author to stumble into... it doesn't make for smooth negotiations - and I do recommend you "discuss" the contract. So the less at that stage, the better, IMHO.

Number Two assumption is that a professional editor is a writer who couldn't make it as a writer and just hung up a sign saying "Editor". Too often this is the case but mine is better than most in-house editors. She freelances for a variety of companies and major publishing houses and she has insights into the marketplace, other people's minds and an astounding ability with words that far exceed my own abilities. She knows how to make a good story into a great one. And I don't know about you... but I rarely think of myself and the word "great" in the same sentence. She tells me in which direction to push the envelope.

Now, I know you think that I'm a good editor. But I can't see the faults in my own work, and they'll be really basic ones like the voice being inconsistent, or whiney. Generalist impressions really, and if I post it at a crit group, I get 10 generalist impressions back for the mere price of a few crits and I can iron out the kinks. Kinks I didn't even know were there before because I'm too wrapped up in my own story... I practically don't need to read the words in my own story, I know the mood, I know the character, but I can't guess if anyone else is getting that too. A crit group is the cheapest form of feedback and will save you money with a professional editor or face if you skip straight to the publisher's editor. There are significant problems with crit groups, and the mutilation of enthusiasm is the main one. And one I haven't protected myself from adequately... altho, I have been thru the Hiroshima of critique groups so it's hard not to be mutilated in some way. Another is that you'll meet someone who tries to rewrite your prose into formal American textbookism prose and you'll sit there going, huh? Strewth, mate! What a load of bollocks! What's wrong with me bloody prose?

I'm actually a member of three crit groups, a children's one - a very talented and multi-published online group altho we meet regularly at book launches etc, Otherworlds - that sff one you and many other people dislike for it's general harshness, but I still put to good use, and SuperNOVA - a sffh group that meet face to face once a month, possibly the best and most talented group downunder (let's see if Thorbies bites). SuperNOVA is a top group for imaginative direction too. If I'm stalling, couch potatoing, wimping out plotwise, they'll kick my plot right up the wazoo and send it out to do some real work.

So I guess I'm saying imput is important, generally, but quality imput is the thing that is going to really help. I'm lucky to know so many excellent writers willing to share their expertise.

Having said all that about imput and crit groups tho, it is hard to protect your enthusiasm when you truly know how much you don't know and some crit groups aren't going to teach you a thing. They will just have you running around full of faults with no answers about how to improve.

There is something beautiful about the teenage* years of writing, of being 10ft high and bulletproof and churning out pages. If there is a way to keep that while attaining the knowledge to mould that writing into something that resonates with readers everywhere, then that is the path to take. I suspect it may not involve crit groups.


*Teenage as in innocent enough to think you still know it all and anything can happen.

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Re: I remembered to log in.
(Anonymous)
2006-12-29 12:33 am UTC (link)
Sorry,I missguggled: the moossage was "did you mean Macbibble?" Cheers mate! May the peep watch over thee

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Re: I remembered to log in.
[info]macdibble
2007-01-17 01:15 pm UTC (link)
Don't you hate the misguggle?

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